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 Chiang Ch'ing Talk at the Peking Forum on Literature and Art, 11. 9 & 11.12, 1967

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Source: CCP Documents of the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution,1966-1967, P.595-P.602. Union Research Institute, Hong Kong,1968.
Transcribed for www.wengewang.org


DOCUMENT OF THE CCP CENTRAL COMMITTEE

Chung-fa No. 354 (67)

All provincial, municipal, autonomous region revolutionary committees (preparatory groups), military control committees, all military regions and provincial military districts:

   The talk given by Comrade Chiang Ch'ing in the evenings of November 9 and November 12 at the Peking Forum on Literature and Art is very important. This talk analysed, on the basis of our great leader Chairman Mao's latest directives, the current situation of the great proletarian cultural revolution in the literary and artistic circles, and made important directives to the problems and missions of the great proletarian cultural revolution in the literary and artistic circles.
   Now the record of this talk at the two meetings is transmitted to you. Please organize the literary and artistic circles, the press and publishing circles, the literary and artistic units in the army, and the mass organizations in universities and secondary and primary schools to carry on studies and discussions, and to implement it in earnest in connection with the concrete conditions in the various units.

The CCP Central Committee
The Central Cultural Revolution Group
November 13, 1967

Appendix:

TALK OF COMRADE CHTANG CH'ING

In the evenings of November 9 and November 12, Comrades Po-ta, Kang Sheng and Chiang Ch'ing summoned the military representatives and revolutionary mass representatives of a part of the units in the central propaganda system and held two sessions of a forum, participants of the forum including also Comrades Chang Chun-chiang, Chi Pen-yu, Yao Wen-yuan, Yang Cheng-wu, Wu Fa-hsien and others. Comrade Chiang Ch'ing made two talks at the forum:

   I feel very sorry that for a very long time I have not had hearings of opinions of comrades. I can well understand it if comrades should have some opinion against us; for comrades know about our conditions.
   Before the great proletarian cultural revolution, I worked wholeheartedly together with comrades for drama revolution and music revolution. This was a very burdensome task, a very serious work. It could not be accomplished in a day or two, or even in one month or two; it needed a lot of energy. On this question I spoke repeatedly to some comrades. Since the great proletarian cultural revolution started, as the working conditions changed, my energy was wholy committed to other aspects. Therefore, I have not been able to keep track of the plays, music and movies which you produce, as I did in the earlier years when I was together with you in the specific task of literary and artistic revolution. Having made this point clear, I may perhaps be pardoned by comrades.
   During the period when the Chairman gave his talks at the Yenan Forum on Literature and Art, my work was not concerned with cultural programs, and I only ran into occasional encounters in the cultural circles. In the initial stage after entering the cities, I followed Chairman Mao's teachings and guidance, and wanted to establish two armies for the worker-peasant-soldier, for the proletarian revolutionary line: one army of creative writers, and one army of critics. But, on this front, other people imposed a dictatorship over us; they used all kinds of means to prevent the implementation of Chairman Mao's proletarian revolutionary line and literary line. As for us, there was also a process for recognition, and there was further the question of work-post.* The Chairman certainly paid much attention to this aspect! I was merely a roving patrol. It was only in the process of the current great proletarian cultural revolution movement that the problem of troop formation in the cultural circles is basically solved.
   Having listened to some utterances at this forum, I feel that they are of a relatively high level, and can point out the unbalanced development of the great proletarian cultural revolution. In fact it is unbalanced. You can see the objective rules of this class struggle. In some places it is done better; in some other places it is done not so well; and in still other places it looks very tranquil, but is in essence a pool of stagnant water. But for such a situation we must not say that all has not done well, that there should be great confusion for all again. Units such as "New Movies" and "Ballet Troupe" belong to the category of the smothered. Units which have not yet really made a success of the great revolutionary alliance and the revolution three-in-one combination, naturally cannot make a success of the struggle-repudiation-transformation and the great criticism. For such units, it would be good to have another spell of confusion. Confusion to the enemy! Confusion to the enemy!! Some units have realized the great revolutionary alliance, but have not yet made a success of the revolutionary three-in-one combination; they should, on the basis of further consolidation of the great revolution alliance, make a success of the revolutionary three-in-one combination, through debate, criticism and the solution of cadre problems. Only then can they effectively carry on the struggle-repudiation-transformation and the great criticism. For some units which have done comparatively well, where the great revolutionary alliance is relatively successful and the revolutionary three-in-one combination is also carried out, their total effort should be committed to the struggle-repudiation-transformation and the great criticism.
   Generally speaking, it is to establish revolutionary troops. The establishment of troops in the cultural circles has this problem: the class element is relatively complicated. But, while a person
cannot decide his own origin, his performance and attitude still count. The Chairman has taught us that in the establishment of the class troops, the class element should indeed be inspected but this element is not the sole consideration. The majority of youths and revolutionary young generals will surely take Chairman Mao's revolutionary line, and the majority of cadres will also follow Chairman Mao's line — for this we should all be full of confidence.
   To carry on the great revolutionary alliance, all organizations should conduct more self-criticisms, and conduct more investigations and studies and self-criticisms in one's own organization. This would facilitate the alliance. Otherwise, the enemy can easily exploit our weaknesses. In this aspect, the Chairman has issued important directives, which comrades have studied, so I shall not elaborate. In short, for matters belonging to contradictions within the people, it is best to conduct more self-criticism and less criticism against others; if it is contradiction between the enemy and ourselves, then we must carry on the struggle and the repudiation until the enemy falls and stinks.
   The literary and artistic circles are relatively complicated. This can be perceived from your utterances and from the materials you sent us. Has the movement been carried profoundly and thoroughly? I think not. For the enemy is very shrewd. They have many sets of groupings. As soon as you get rid of one set, another set gets into place. So I feel that there must be a penetrating investigation and study of the literary and artistic circles.
   We should be steady, accurate and harsh — towards our enemy; towards ourselves we should not wage civil war all the time, nor should we wage civil war all the time against our friends. If we engage in civil war, we are apt to be exploited by the enemy; sometimes the enemy manipulates behind the scenes so that wage civil war, then he takes the opportunity to sneak away.   You should recognize this trick.
   Recently the New Movie Studio produced a documentary of a few modern revolutionary Peking operas, taking much time in the project. I am told that you did not film it on stage. But you did it without first thoroughly comprehending the ideological themes and the artistic qualities of these operas; this was done in the past. After I saw the movie last evening, I felt uneasy. Is it possible for you to make some supplementary filming? If it is shown in the whole country as it is now, those workers, peasants and soldiers who have not seen these operas before would not be able to understand them; for they, unlike us, are not familiar with these operas. You should not be impatient to show it, but should see how to reform it well.
 Comrade Tan Yuan-shou of Peking First Troupe of Peking Opera is one of the impatient ones.   He complained that no new operas have been produced (of late). This sentiment is understandable; but, if new ones are produced crudely as was done in the past, people would still strike us down.   It would be preferable that our eight model operas occupy the stage for the time being.   These eight model operas have already cleared the stage and the screen of emperors and generals and the bourgeoisie. Besides there has been a reform in ballet and symphony; though there are still many shortcomings and many areas which need further probing, this has also created a sensation and shock in the world.   The adoptation of "The White-haired Girl" by the Ballet Troupe this time was, on account of impatience, done crudely — (but) I believe the adoptation of "The White-haired Girl" can definitely be a success. And such products cannot stand up on their feet.   Of course I am also responsible for this, because I have not spent much time to work together with comrades. But shouldn't you yourselves get organized and carry on the program seriously?
   There is a question of popularization versus elevation. Some one just said that we should organize small detachments and send them down to produce fragments and minor items for the viewing of workers, peasants and soldiers. This of course can be done. But, the central task now is still to combat self-interest and repudiate revisionism, and to organize the revolutionary troops. Otherwise it would be impossible to produce things really serving socialism and really suitable for the needs of workers, peasants and soldiers. To combat self-interest and repudiate revisionism is a hard and difficult matter. It would be wrong indeed if some people should attempt to escape from it by exploiting the activities of going to the countryside and the factories. Comrades do not necessarily have such ideas, but should be alert for them.
   Can we say that the eight revolutionary model operas now are the peak of our national art? As we all know, it is not easy to produce a model opera, which takes thousands of actions to refine, and usually a period of two to three years. Therefore it is not possible for each opera to become a model. Model operas are the peak; they represent the direction. In order to produce more revolutionary model operas, it would be necessary to pass through various ways. Therefore, I feel comrades should set up a determination to make a success of the combat against self-interest and the repudiation of revisionism. This, for the present time, is the most important and the most fundamental.
   Now there is still half a month left of November, there will be the whole month of December, and there are two to three months before the Spring Festival. Shouldn't we first establish our troops in various units, and struggle harshly, repudiate harshly against our enemy until he falls and stinks! Otherwise, there is great ideological confusion in creative writing, and then creative writing cannot be done. During this period, some units will have to have some confusion; some other units have had enough, and do not necessarily have to have more confusion. The confusion in some units is to confuse the enemy, not to confuse ourselves; this is entirely proper. To cover up the contradictions is neither a good method nor a correct one. We are not afraid of confusion; but those units which have done relatively well, and have had the great revolutionary alliance and the revolutionary three-in-one combination, need not be submitted to confusion again. That is to say, we must have analysis. On this question, our revolutionary comrades and revolutionary young generals must have, on the one hand, the fearless style of a proletarian revolutionary, being unafraid of confusion and capable of sustaining pressure and refinement, and, on the other hand, the hard-working spirit of a pragmatist, using his head for scientific analysis, overcoming and pushing aside the interference of various kinds of un-proletarian ideologies; thus he may truly march victoriously along the revolutionary line of Chairman Mao.
   There is also the question of the seventeen years and the fifty days. * *  I feel that the opinion of certain revolutionary young generals is very good. Accounts must be settled for the fifty days, for the seventeen years, and for the nineteen thirties as well — the roots trace a long way back! One young general said that some people only pay attention to the fifty days, and not the seventeen years, and that this is in effect to use the fifty days to protect the seventeen years and the thirties. This view is very profound. Besides, to separate the fifty days with the seventeen years would mean to separate Chairman Mao's proletarian revolutionary line with Chairman Mao's proletarian revolutionary literary line; and that would also be wrong. Of course, for the thirties, for the seventeen years, and for the fifty days, the principle of "one dividing into two" should be applied. In the thirties, there was also the Leftist faction led by Lu Shun; in the seventeen years, there was also some revolutionary Leftists; and there were more in the fifty days, who rose up to fight against the literary black line. The work-teams in effect were meant to protect the seventeen years, to protect the thirties, even to protect the twenties. Some young comrades and revolutionary young generals with a higher level (of political consciousness) have clearly recognized this question.
   Concerning the question of joining the army, you should not be impatient. Now Vice Chairman Lin has issued an order, asking Comrade Yang Cheng-wu and his Office Group of Military Commission to select several cadres of the army or division level to take charge of this matter; this is a good news that I report to you. If you clamor for joining the army all day long, you would forget about everything else.
   I was not prepared for giving a talk today; perhaps I have not failed to give a whole picture, and may have been mistaken in some aspect, for which comrades may criticize me. That is all I talk now; we shall meet again in such forums later.
  
Comrade Chen Po-ta:

   I have a suggestion. The talk given by Comrade Chiang Ch'ing today is very very good! It covers almost all the problems in our literary and artistic circles at the present, and covers them in a systematic way. The recording of Comrade Chiang Ch'ing's talk may be played in all units of the literary and artistic circles, in Peking, in Shanghai, in the whole country, so that all may discuss it and enable the programs of the literary and artistic circles to take a long stride ahead.

Translator’s Note:

   * This sentence seems to mean: It took some time for "us" to realize that the cultural departments were not truly implementing Chairman Mao's literary line, but, on "our" work-post at that time, "we" could hardly interfere.


* * The "seventeen years" refers to 1949 — 1966, i.e. the period from the establishment of the regime to the outbreak of the great cultural revolution. The "fifty days" refers to the period from late-May 1966 to mid-July 1966, when Mao Tse-tung was not in Peking, and CCP central organizations were controlled by Liu Shao-ch'i and Teng Hsiao-p'ing, who sent out work-teams to carry on the cultural revolution. This period was later condemned by Maoists as a period of suppression of the revolutionary Left by those in authority in the Party taking the capitalist road in an attempt to abolish the great cultural revolution.
  
  
  

 
 
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中央首长在中央直属文艺系统座谈会的讲话
陈伯达 江青 张春桥
1967.11.09




〖时间:晚九时,地点:人大会堂。参加单位:中国京剧院、北京市京剧一团、中央乐团、芭蕾舞剧团、中央戏剧学院、中央音乐学院。首长:陈伯达、江青、张春桥、戚本禹、姚文元、吴法宪等、〗



江青:今天来听听你们的意见,很久没有过问你们的事了,很抱歉,主要了解文艺界运动的情况,有点冷场啊,……我提一个问题,听说你们有一个“十七年与五十天的争论”,你们谈谈。有很多同志给我写了信,我也不能一一的回,近芳给我写了两封,(杜)近芳讲吧,听说文艺界有砸三旧和反砸三旧。

(当杜近芳汇报到中国京剧院的运动情况,说有人围攻军代表时)江青:应该让军队来个同志,让杨成武同志来。

戚本禹:他病了。

江青:那就让吴法宪同志来。(打电话叫吴法宪同志)

(钱浩梁谈到京剧院成立了革命委员会时)江青:你们这么个小单位就成立了革命委员会,我们还是小组呢,你们有多少人?

钱浩梁:十三个委员。

江青:有没有常委?

钱浩梁:没有。(又谈到剧院联合问题)

江青:问题是这个大联合是否妨碍你们更好的斗争一小撮坏人,如果不妨碍,自然就没什么了,如果有妨碍那就是另外一回事了!

(当钱浩梁汇报到工作队在时投票选革委会时)江青:极端民主实际上是不民主。

(当钱浩梁讲到京剧院“东方红”夺权后,不斗阿甲斗他们时)戚本禹:现在他们成立了革命委员会斗了阿甲,有简报。

江青:我没看到。

(当谈到去年十一月廿八日大会“东方红”不让钱浩梁、杜近芳参加大会时)江青:反对,就是反对我们小组,你们参加大会的名单是我们提名,民主讨论过的。

(谈到冲击京剧一团时)江青:什么东西,都去冲你们京剧一团,再去你们就揍他们,他们反对我没什么,反对我们小组那就不行,不过我保留还击的权力,要是武斗我非还击不可,你们都是武生吗?

钱浩梁:我们是武生,可是没真打过。(众笑)

(当谈到京剧院“东方红”头头×××时)江青:你说的头头还是小人物吧!你们院里还有不少大人物!

张春桥:小人物和大人物是有联系的。

江青:应该联系起来看,你们应该总结教训,他们厉害,你们比他们还厉害嘛。

(杜近芳讲到“东方红”掌权后,自称“造反派”掌权斗他们时)江青:造反派要看你是造资产阶级的反,还是造无产阶级的反。造反派容易,要有阶级性。

(当谈到搞样板戏时)江青:样板戏一般要修改二、三年。

(当中央戏剧学院×××起来汇报时,谈到十七年与五十天的关系问题时)江青:你叫什么?是哪个单位的?

李春人:我叫李春人,是中央戏剧学院的。(接谈砸三旧的观点)

戚本禹:他们戏剧学院是文艺界斗争的焦点,所以把他们找来了。你是红旗的吧?

答:是。

(当谈到复课,有人坐不下来时)江青:可不是,复课就是搞斗批改,就不能到处溜哒了。

李春人:有人坐不下来。

江青:你算说了句心里话。(笑)

戚本禹:不,不、不!他们还是能坐得不来的,叶向真的问题就是他搞出来的,他们坚持斗李伯钊,叶向真根本不斗李伯钊,那些材料就是他们从上海调查来的提供给我们的,他们做了踏踏实实的工作,他们这个组织很不错,把受叶向真蒙蔽的同志争取过来了,当然,那个组织中也有一些敢造反的同志。给叶向真开汽车的那个人叫什么?

李春人:叫高才,他当时辱骂戚本禹同志……

戚本禹:他不只是攻击我,他是攻击中央文革,很恶毒么!

江青:彭宁是你们哪儿的吗?那个彭宁可不简单,他背后有人!

戚本禹:那不是他们那儿的!是电影学院的。

江青:啊!彭宁他背后有人!

(当谈到有人要出去造反时)江青:你们还出去造反呢?你们院里的反还没造好哪!你们的教师队伍问题还少吗?

(当谈到文艺界“三名”“三高”问题时)戚本禹:(对江青)他的意见是说三名是有阶级性的,三高是一定要打倒的。

(当谈到文艺界有些人不提阶级成份时)江青:怎么能那样说呢?我们首先是有成份论,然后才是不唯成份论。

(当谈到重在政治表现,但不要割断历史,如叶向真过去一直在政治上、生活上很坏,运动中假造反,以攻为守,这样的人怎么能是造反派呢?)江青:说得对。

(当谈到大专院校两大派插手文艺界,由于搞实用主义,在文艺界搞两大派,所以文艺界分成砸三旧和反砸三旧的两派在某种程度上是派性的产物,文艺界真正的革命派是愿意砸三旧时。)江青同志:对!

戚本禹同志:就是派性的产物。

(谈到叶向真的专案工作进行时,特别是叶向真逃往广州时)江青同志:那是叛国嘛!知道吗?

(当谈到学院仍有个别人死保叶向真,在群众中挑拨破坏时)江青同志:她那是挑拨,恶毒的挑拨。

(当谈到保叶干将杜××说:老叶打不倒,小叶也打不倒,我也倒不了时。)江青:何以见得老子和女儿就划不清界限了。

(孙青海介绍到战斗团还有少数人死保叶向真,但也有真正造反的)戚本禹同志:对。

江青:那个人叫什么名字。

(答:杜××)

江青:战斗团自己起来造她的反嘛!

(谈到战斗团搞叶向真问题时)江青:你们应该联合起来,防止坏人钻空子。

戚本禹:你们应该和“红旗”的同志联合起来搞嘛!

江青:你们学院联合了吗?(答:联合了。)

江青:联合应该加革命二字,要革命的联合。

(在汇报到有些地区坏人混进造反派队伍中的问题时)

江青:有个叫白桦的人,到××文工团去了。

(汇报此人也钻到造反派里来了)张春桥:什么?他钻到造反派里来了?

江青:他是个右派。(当汇报砸三旧时)

江青:砸三旧,但是不要砸国家财产。

(音乐学院汇报,当谈到北京公社时)江青:哪个北京公社?

戚本禹:就是郑公盾的儿子(众:郑伯农)在的那个北京公社。

江青:郑公盾这个人真怪,通过他的儿女来操纵。

戚本禹:十二月黑风时北京公社贴大标语“中央文革老虎屁股真的摸不得吗?”

江青:让他们摸嘛!我不怕。

吴法宪:(站起来举手)谁反对中央文革谁就是反革命。

(他们十二月在外串连)戚本禹:就是那个李洪山。

(介绍北京公社,讲到郑伯农三化总结是郑伯农写的,林默涵搞的)江青:那篇文章很糟糕。

张春桥:不只刹车。

江青:不只刹车。观点都是错误的。

(这篇文章与二月提纲有关,姚文元点头。四月廿八日郑伯农在北京日报批的向阳生的文章是郑公盾写给范瑾的,李琪批的小样,刘仁最后批的。)戚本禹:还有这样事?

江青:这是假批判真包庇。(……)

江青:郑公盾不是好人哪,我看了他很多材料,他现在到处控告,都搞到外国去了!这个人我没见过,是个什么人?

戚本禹:(对江青同志)他们说我搞了你黑材料,其实那是影协郑雪菜搞的!

江青:第一我不怕;第二我不相信你搞了我的材料。

(谈陈莲问题时)戚本禹:陈莲和他们还是有区别的,她还是揭发一些问题的。

(当谈到有人造谣说:“姚文元是砸三旧的;戚本禹是反砸三旧的”)

姚文元:那是挑拨。(谈到有人反对文艺组时)戚本禹:文艺组是有错误有缺点的,可以批评,但不能利用这个把它打倒。

(谈到陆公达问题时)江青:陆公达是什么人?

戚本禹:是文艺组的,陆公达这个人工作是有错误的,这个人派性很大,可以批评,不过他是个红卫兵,不能要求很高。

(谈到音乐学院的学生情况)江青:音乐学院是贵族学院。

(谈到11月2日戚本禹同志去影协的讲话对文艺界影响很大时)戚本禹:我说的是影协的情况,不涉及文艺界其它单位。

江青:协会和学校不一样,学校还有那么多学生,协会里的人拿着高工资,又不到工农兵中去。

(谈到芭蕾剧团斗私批修搞得不好时)江青:斗私总是要注意自我批评,提倡自我批评。斗私总是要作自我批评,其它同志是帮助,斗私如果到处斗,就会变成人人过关,我们在延安整风时,就是自我批评。如果不斗私批修,就进行不下来。

(谈到芭蕾舞剧团运动冷冷清清时)江青同志:你们这个团怎么成了一潭死水,我搞不清楚。你们那儿不见得不复杂,戴爱莲是你们那儿的吧?她怎么样?

(介绍戴爱莲情况,谈到复课闹革命问题时)江青:课还是要复的,不复课人又都要跑了,就没有人搞斗批改了,复课闹革命嘛!

(谈到话剧问题时)江青:话剧和音乐,舞蹈不一样,但也有自己的基本功,话剧十七年来基本功是不好的,是抄斯氏体系的。

(芭蕾剧团谈到组织小分队下乡问题时)。江青同志:现在有一个普及与提高的问题,刚才说的组织小分队下去搞片断给工农兵看是可以的,不过现在斗私批修你们没有搞好,一个民族要有自己的尖端,这是在普及基础上的。过去,舞台上的灯光我一直是满意的,有一个剧团,把树影子打到天幕上去了,电影上出来几个太阳,这不是技巧问题,是技术不好。过去,不讲究灯光,布景很糟糕,不知是怎么打的,当然话剧的美工和电影美工不同,电影美工还要学点建筑工程,话剧美工就不用了,现在没有脚光是什么原因?我最近发现舞台上演员的眼睛看不见,舞台的灯光和电影不一样。主要靠你们自己搞。

(芭蕾舞团谈到组织小分队下乡问题)江青同志:你们的思想没弄清,要去也只有去军队(我们就是要去军队)去军队是可以的,不过这又太分散,我看还是在家里搞斗私批修吧!

(谈到普及)江青同志:革命的样板戏要普及,还是要通过电影,我对话剧最不满意,话剧顾名思义就是要讲话罗,一口舞台腔,上海人艺,一口舞台腔,还是那些老家伙霸占着,最坏了!(问张春桥同志)是不是?(答:是。)

(谈京剧院运动情况时)江青同志:中国京剧团运动复杂得很,钱浩梁刚才发言软得很,总是怕,有人要“油炸江青”,我都不怕!(笑)

(谈到裘盛戎去广州演出)江青同志:裘盛戒能否去广州演出,你们大家评一评,我不知道他有什么政治活动,看他是不是反革命,特别是现行反革命,如果不是,我同意去,这是我个人的意见,文化大革命,不是把老艺术家都不要了。只要他革命,按毛主席革命路线走,能做自我批评,我们没有理由不要。裘盛戒和马连良不一样,马连良是汉奸,很坏!欢迎裘盛戒参加我们的革命队伍。


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
来源:1967年11月15日清华大学井冈山斗批改战团编印《学习资料》第43期,红代会清华井冈山联合总部主办《井冈山报》1967年12月1日特刊第1、4版,以及其他材料。

  
  
  
  

 
 
顶端 Posted: 2009-02-06 11:58 | 1 楼
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江青陈伯达在中央直属文艺系统座谈会上的讲话
陈伯达 江青
1967.11.12




〖清华大学《学习资料》注:11月12日人大会堂陈伯达、康生、江青、张春桥、戚本禹、姚文元、杨成武、吴法宪等中央首长接见电影、美术、音乐、戏剧及四个样板戏的革命群众组织负责人,江青同志作了重要的讲话。本报42期刊登了这个讲话的记录整理稿。今天,我们把江青同志讲话以及在讲话前首长和群众的对话(录音整理稿)一并登出来,供大家学习。〗



江青:前几天开了一个小型座谈会,没有美术和电影,今天再开一个。

戚本禹:原来想开一个电影扩大会,没有美术。

江青:你这个人怎么啦?本来说好是有美术。

戚:现在去找。

江青:好久没有听同志们的意见啦!现在听一听同志们的意见。

北影霍庄(大学):(略)

江青:发言要简略,几十个人……

北影遵义:(略)

康生:王管的丈夫蹲点也在那。(不在)

江青:北影厂有多少人?(800多人)纯是相对的,军队不是有个八一厂,打得一塌糊涂。

康生:我问一问(指北影)你们是几派?有什么分歧?(略)

江青:没有导演、美工?

戚:导演找不出一个合适的。

北影“主义兵”:(略)

江青:一个导演也没有,一个编剧也没有好的?这是你开名单的责任。

姚:有,有。

江青:我现在不见他(指崔嵬安见江青)他不好好检查自己的问题,不好好交待,我不见他。

北影主义兵:文艺界不象过去那么稳,有些乱,是敌人搞的。(首长没谈这个问题)

江青:什么?聂晶也参加什么组织吗?(没有,开始在大学,后倾向总部)

江青:秦文也在你们那儿?(否)

戚:不是点了你们的名,光抓别人,不搞自己机关的(指抓坏人)

(八一厂革委会汇报,略)(中央乐团发言,略)

江:李德伦是个什么问题?是政治问题?

姚:为什么很谨慎?(指大字报很难产)

江:音乐设计有问题,反面角色给观众留下形象,刁德一就是小孩都学会了。

江:可以反复讨论,可以慎重处理。

(新影革命造反公社汇报,略)

江:所有的厂都有这个问题(指几种颜色的工作证)你们厂有多少人?(指新影,略)你们厂前些日子打得很厉害?

姚:陈荒煤怎么样?(群众反映陈很舒服)

江:叫他们好舒服!你们没有斗好,要大、中、小结合,把要害弄出来。你们新影应整出的材料很多的,去年看了“新”。文化部两个新闻片,肖望东搞的那个是什么?

姚:赵辛初。

江:为什么解散?(指群众组织)为革命联合吗?

康:陈撤职了没有?(我们厂斗)

江:还是应该斗他么!李伯钊(注:杨尚昆夫人)你们没好好斗他,和她丈夫里通外国,你们工作可能没做好!越斗越神气才怪啊,还准备翻案吗?买小报(指陈荒煤买小报),怎么不动他?很狡猾。(指陈)应该从科、室(指大联合)。

姚:你们那里总算也抓得很紧的,反革命活动你们到底搞出来没有?

江:调查了没有?我很抱歉,视神经不平衡,前一段不能看。

(王林珍讲电影生产情况,略)

江:重要的问题还不在那!还没有一个队伍,斗批还没有搞好,看什么片子啊?(新影红色造反团:略)你自己组织揪自己组织里的坏人!不是为革命大联合(谈学习班,什么人都参加)

姚:你们厂有多少人?(700多人)

姚:编现代戏,原来是谁编的?(答:王××)

江:革命现代戏是谁编的(肖容喜、王××)(一老一少)他们没什么政治问题吗?(答:没什么政治问题)(汇报:大联合后,不好了,不批判)没有革命的三结合,没有革命的领导班子!

姚:比较困难还可以再革命哪?

康:大联合后有没有个领导班子。

江:一定要搞革命的领导班子,来领导革命的大批判。(工艺美院井冈山汇报略)你们学校有多少人?(答:600多)你们应当搬到工厂去办吧(笑!)邓浩是你们的院长吧!(汇报:回班系大联合,造反退出组织)“新影”没揪(指揪坏人)。

姚:新影没揪!(回班系后,山头多了)

江:领导班子。

姚:领导班子。

江:斗私批修也要有领导班子。(敌人也不老实)按你说的,你们的大联合搞得还不错嘛,就是缺一个领导班子。你们是两个组织联合了,为什么不能成立一个领导班子?斗私批修也要有个领导班子。

康:你认为条件不成熟是不是指干部不成熟(是)是干部问题。勤务班子的人是不是平等的。(是)是不是你们那个组织要结合的和他们要结合的不一样?你们是不同意夺权的(问工艺“井冈山”)你们夺权结合了吗?(问工艺“东方红”)

江:你们回去自己干部协商吧!绝对化,你们绝对化,筹备小组还不可以,你们回去协商吧。

戚:你们不要争了,江青同志指示很清楚了嘛!(美院“燎原”汇报,略)

(特点:学生少,三四年没招生(130人)毕业生占80%。)

江:你们尽搞一些沙龙的作品,我们哪有那些地方给你们啊!你们自己说是个大染缸,我看是个漂白缸,红的进去,白的出来哪!听说你们那里有两个女将很活跃。(指颜金生老婆,邓小平大女儿)肖望东用提级方法来收买这些同志,当然这些干部不都是坏的。(美院革筹结合了陈波,南京同肖一块来的。)



(美院派了几个人到乡下,为教改打基础)

(美院办了一个二十三人的工人学画主席像的训练班)

(美院红旗:李文是党委付书记,二炮付司令的老婆)

康:以前我接触过,觉得不那么好。(指李文)

江:陈波不那么好,是个叛徒。你们美术学院有留法的一派,老的艺专。(美院的:封、资、修)

康:这个问题与徐平羽、林默涵有关。

江:林默涵。

康:你说我记起来了,李琪写黑报报告给陆定一。(宋硕也插手了)

还有宋硕。那个女同志在哪里?(答:在附中)文化大革命中没有出问题?吴晗也搞鬼了。

江:那时可能一个文化部,一个黑市委,一个宣传部。

康:确实有那个三旧:一个旧文化部,一个旧宣传部,一个旧市委,还有那个杨献珍的党校。

严×本身也有些缺点(您接见我们之后,就被打成黑外围。)

江:没事,不要紧。(指64年假整风)你们的信收到了,所以今天把你们叫来了,我同意一个美院,一个北影,一个文化部都是假的。

(汇报:伪社教是资产阶级专政的加强)

(有两个很活跃的女将,颜金生的老婆、邓小平的女儿,红霞公寓,所有的会都参加了)

江:我是个小萝卜头,他们都是老几老几的,我是一个普通的共产党员,所以他们开会也不通知我,开会都又请上去了。(指一些黑帮,指65年文化厅局长会议肖望东、夏衍等上主席台)

江:华什么?(华君武、艾中信,他这个人怎么样了?)

(对李、冯、梁的看法有分歧)

康:你们不了解当时的情况(指美院“红旗”整康老材料)主要是陈半丁,是个混帐王八蛋,他那样攻击共产党,我们给他们那些钱,他还是攻击共产党。不要揪小辫子,根本不知道(关于美院红旗××被关了七十五天监狱)

戚:随时都要利用。(指郑公盾之事,“燎原”攻击“革联”,“红旗”)

江:美术也吹捧印象派,音乐也吹捧印象派,都是资产阶级没落的东西。

姚:是法国的一个集团。

江:戏曲研究院那个地方可不是闹着玩的。有一张小报说,我叫拍刘少奇的电影……造谣。

康:对立面也不要揪了,我有点不安,我们也有缺点,你们不了解,我心里有些不安。

江:在大革命中也难免的,这也是对你的锻炼,不要责怪群众。(指红旗被点)

康:你们这派有多少人?

江:我也没什么更多的话对同志们讲,觉得很对不起,很长的时间了,没有听到同志们的意见,同志们对我们有什么不清哪,或者是有什么意见,我是能够谅解的,因为同志们不了解我们的情况。文化大革命以前,我的精力,虽然我是个半残废,可是我全心全意在搞戏曲革命,音乐革命,和同志们一块儿,因为这是一个很细致的工作、严肃的工作。它不是一天两天,也不是一个月二个月所能办到的。正象今天电影界的同志们,小将们,它有一个矛盾,因为他要立起来,不仅是内容是革命的,而且应该在艺术上也是站得住的,否则人家就要复辟。对这样的问题上,过去我是反复的,给有的同志们讲过的。那么,这是需要很大的精力。

自从文化大革命以后,这工作性质变了,我的精力又全付用在别的方面了,所以你们搞的戏呀、音乐呀、电影呀,我就不能象过去那几年那样和同志们一起来闹革命,现在这一点说明了,同志们也会原谅。不原谅也没什么关系。但是在文化界,从主席《在延安文艺座谈会上的讲话》那个时候,因为我的工作不是搞这个文化工作,只是打遭遇战,但是进城初期,我是尊重主席的教导,想为工农兵,为无产阶级革命路线树立两支队伍,一支就是创作的队伍,一支就是评论的队伍。评论的队伍,当然也评好也评坏,这些年来,在这条战线上,人家专了我们的政,用各种手法不执行主席的革命路线、文艺路线,而我们也有一个认识过程,也有一个工作的岗位问题。主席在这方面那是很注意的,我不过是一个流动的哨兵,只有这次文化大革命才能解决这个问题。

上一次,九号,今天听了一些发言,我觉得发言水平还是比较高的,第一就能指出不平衡。事实上也是不平衡,能够认识到这个客观的阶级斗争情况是不平衡。有的地方,搞得好一些,有的地方就搞得差一些。有的地方看起来是和平的,实际上是一潭死水。那么,针对这样的情况……没真正的搞好革命的大联合,革命的三结合,当然也就不很好的进行斗批改,大批判,这样的单位要乱一下是有好处的,乱敌人。对于有的单位搞得比较好的,革命的大联合搞得比较好,也搞了革命的三结合,那就要全力以赴的搞斗批改,大批判,但总的说还是要树立队伍。

树立队伍在文化界是有这样一个问题的,阶级成份是比较复杂的,但是一个人是不能决定自己的出身的,还是可以看表现的。主席教导我们,树立阶级队伍,是要看成份的,但也不是唯成份论,大多数青年、革命小将,是会跟主席的革命路线走的,大多数干部、党员觉悟了,是会跟主席革命路线走的,这一点是应该满怀信心。

搞革命的大联合最重要的,还是双方作自我批评,两个组织都混杂了坏人,那么最好是不要你这个组织去捉那个组织的人,那个组织去捉这个组织的人,最好是由他自己的那个组织来调查研究,自我批评。这样就容易联合,省得每天吵架,这样子敌人就容易利用,在这个方面嘛,我的水平很低罗,主席最近也有指示,同志们也学习了,我就不多谈了。

但是属于人民内部矛盾的事情,最好是多做自我批评,少批评人家,要是敌我矛盾,那就可以又斗又批。

新影厂搞了一个现代革命京剧的纪录片,你们没有接受我的批评,你们原来是好意,而且花了功夫去完成,但是对于这几个戏的主题思想,它的艺术性在那儿,在什么地方都没有摸透,就那么搞了,搞了一点,昨天晚上,我看了以后觉得挺不安的。你们是不是还能再补一点,还能够补拍,从电影我知道你们也是好象花了功夫的,并不是在舞台上拍的,象这样放到全国去,工人、农民、士兵、他们没有看过这个戏,他就不懂得,像我们摸熟了这个戏的,都看了以后……(笑)这个东西,你们值得放映的,你们讨论一下,新影现在是归宣传口,那主要是很多事是伯达同志管,具体工作是文元同志在搞。

文艺界比较复杂,从你们发言里头,送给我们的材料看,但是搞深搞透没有?我看没有!因为敌人是很狡猾的,一套一套班子,你搞掉一套,他又来一套了,所以我觉得应该作深入的调查研究,要稳、准、狠对敌人。对自己不要老打“内战”,对朋友也不要老打“内战”,这个打“内战”就会被敌人利用,敌人有时就是在背后操纵你们打“内战”,他就乐了,这一点要识破他们!

北京京剧一团谭元寿,他就很急,唉呀!这个没有搞出戏来,这个心情可以谅解的,但是如果你很粗糙的像过去那搞出一个东西呀,那人家还是要打倒的,宁愿这八个占领舞台,这八个样板戏已经把帝王将相和资产阶级赶下了舞台,赶下了银幕,还是在芭蕾舞,交响乐这个方面的改革。虽然它们还是有很多缺点,有很多需要探讨的地方,但是在世界上也是震动的。过去性急、粗糙,如芭蕾舞剧团这次改革的“白毛女”,“白毛女”我相信一定能改好的,但是很急躁,搞得就很粗糙,那么站不住脚。当然,这我也有责任,我也没有很多时间来和同志们一块来搞创作。但是你们自己呢?要是我死了怎么办?是不是能够组织起来认真的进行这个工作。但是在目前,现在十一月还有半个多月,下月还有一个整月,春节前还有两、三个月,那么,在这些不平衡的单位里头,是不是把队伍先树起来,把敌人狠斗,狠批!批倒、批臭!否则你们创作思想都是混乱的,那就不能够搞创作!那么在这个时期呢?乱一下,有的单位乱一下,有的单位不一定再乱,乱够了,有的单位再乱一下,乱敌人,不是乱我们,这是完全应该的,把矛盾掩盖起来,这不是一个好的方法,这不正确!我们的看法,是已经搞革命的大联合,革命的三结合比较好的单位,就不要去乱了,这要有分析才行,同时,要有一股无产阶级革命者的风格,顶得住!

我今天也累了,也没有准备就跟同志们座谈,就谈这么一点意见,也许我讲的也不完整,有错了的,同志们批评我,我就讲这么一点,以后我们再座谈。



伯达同志:我也没有意见了,我觉得江青同志讲得很好,很好……。



江青同志:还有个事情,就是十七年和五十天的问题,我忘记了,我觉得有些同志、革命小将见解是很好的,十七年要算!五十天也算!卅年代也要算!这个根长得很哩!有个小将讲,我记不得名字,说有人讲,只能搞这个五十天,十七年就不要搞了。那么,实际上就是用五十天包庇十七年,包庇三十年代!同时把毛主席的革命路线和毛主席的文艺路线分割开来。这个是不对的,当然罗,对三十年代也好,对十七年来也好,五十天来也好,都要一分为二,因为三十年代也有以鲁迅为首的左派,十七年也有一些革命左派,五十天来那就更多了,起来反抗,这个……这个工作队实质上是保护这个十七年、卅年,甚至廿年代罗!那一天文艺界青年同志,革命小将,我觉得水平还是比较高的,看清楚这个问题了,我现在只能讲这么几句了,我不插话了。



伯达同志:江青同志讲的大家同意不同意?我觉得江青同志今天讲话,讲得很好,针对着我们当前文艺界的问题,都谈到了,可以把江青同志讲话录音,各个单位拿去放,组织大家讨论,上海也可以放嘛,我的意见各单位放、讨论,上海可以放,全国可以放,座谈、讨论。这可以使文艺界大进一步,使以前的工作大进一步,大家看同意不同意(鼓掌)



江青同志:关于参军的问题,你们不要着急,林付主席已经下命令,请杨成武同志他们这个办事……你们叫办事组吧!挑送几个军一级干部,军、师的干部来管这件事,请不要急,天天急得参军呀,参军呀!就忘了别的了。报告你们这个好消息。


  
  
  
  

 
 
顶端 Posted: 2009-02-06 12:00 | 2 楼
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